Show Notes
Description
Interim Dean of The Ohio State University College of Medicine, Dr Amy Moore, joins us as we consider sustainable excellence in academic medicine. She shares insight and tips for balancing leadership responsibilities while remaining deeply engaged in clinical care, research, and education. We hope you can join us!
Topic
Sustainable Excellence in Academic Medicine
Learning Objectives
At the end of this activity, participants should be able to:
- Describe the benefits and challenges of maintaining clinical, research, and leadership responsibilities.
- Analyze strategies to prioritize responsibilities and protect time for high-value activities.
- Evaluate characteristics of high-functioning teams that support effective leadership in academic medicine.
- Apply principles of sustainable excellence to leadership, scholarship, clinical practice, and career development.
Guest
Dr Amy Moore
Professor of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery
Interim Dean, The Ohio State University College of Medicine
Links
Center for Faculty Advancement, Mentoring, and Engagement
Episode Transcript
[Dr Mike Patrick]
This episode of FAMEcast is brought to you by the Center for Faculty Advancement, Mentoring, and Engagement at The Ohio State University College of Medicine.
[MUSIC]
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of FAMEcast. We are a faculty development podcast from The Ohio State University College of Medicine.
This is Dr. Mike coming to you from the campus of Ohio State. It’s episode 25. We’re calling this one Sustainable Excellence in Academic Medicine.
I want to welcome all of you to the program. We are so happy to have you with us. You know, academic medicine often asks leaders to wear many hats.
Clinician, researcher, educator, mentor, and administrator. While leadership responsibilities can expand quickly, many successful leaders continue to care for patients, conduct research, and remain actively engaged in the academic missions they oversee. So how does one balance these competing demands?
What gets protected? What gets delegated? And what lessons emerge along the way?
In other words, how can we sustain excellence across the many hats we wear while remaining effective in each role and maintaining a healthy personal life? It is a lot to juggle. In this episode of FAMEcast, we will explore the opportunities and challenges of leading while maintaining clinical and scholarly excellence.
We’ll discuss strategies for protecting time, building high-functioning teams, modeling sustainable success, and remaining connected to the work that inspires us. Of course, in our usual FAMEcast fashion, we have a terrific guest joining us in the studio to discuss the topic. My guest today is Dr. Amy Moore. She is a professor of plastic and reconstructive surgery, and she is currently serving as the interim dean of the Ohio State University College of Medicine. Her career exemplifies the integration of leadership, innovation, research, education, and patient care. And she’ll be here shortly to share the secret sauce of sustainable excellence in academic medicine.
Before she arrives, I do have some reminders for you here really quick. Additional resources from FAME and the Ohio State University College of Medicine are available on our website. So, if you head over to famecast.org and click on the resources tab up there at the top of the page, we have links to some faculty development modules. The first is Advancing Your Clinical Teaching. It is a series of 17 learning modules developed by faculty development experts at Ohio State. And these modules can be taken separately or as a full series.
They are free for faculty at Ohio State. Just contact fame at osumc.edu for access. There is a small fee for those not affiliated with Ohio State.
We also have a set of modules called Faculty Development for Medical Educators, or FD4ME. And this is a robust collection of learning modules that’s designed to equip medical educators with advanced teaching skills in both clinical and classroom settings. There is a small fee for Ohio State faculty and those not affiliated with our institution.
However, group and institutional pricing is available for both sets of modules. Just contact fame at osumc.edu for more details. And again, you can find links to Advancing Your Clinical Teaching and FD4ME by clicking the resources tab up there at the top of the page when you head over to famecast.org.
Also want to remind you the information presented in every episode of our podcast is for general educational purposes only. Your use of this audio program is subject to the FAMEcast Terms of Use Agreement, which you can find at famecast.org. So, let’s take a quick break.
We’ll get Dr. Amy Moore settled into the studio. And then we will be back to talk about sustainable excellence in academic medicine. It’s coming up right after this.
[MUSIC]
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Our guest this week is Dr. Amy Moore. She is a professor of plastic and reconstructive surgery at Ohio State. She is also a nationally recognized surgeon scientist, an accomplished educator and mentor, and a leader whose work has transformed the field of peripheral nerve surgery.
She currently serves as interim dean for the Ohio State University College of Medicine and interim vice president of health sciences for the Wexner Medical Center. Throughout her career, Dr. Moore has advanced groundbreaking research, cared for patients with complex reconstructive needs, authored more than 100 peer-reviewed publications, and trained the next generation of physicians and surgeons. Today, she joins us to share insights on balancing leadership responsibilities while remaining deeply engaged in clinical care, research, and education.
Before we dive into today’s topic, let’s offer a warm FAMEcast welcome to our guest, Dr. Amy Moore. Thank you so much for being here today.
[Dr Amy Moore]
Thanks, Dr. Mike. It’s an honor and privilege to be here with you.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, we are really excited for this conversation. Let’s just start with the importance of what we’re going to talk about. Why is it important for academic leaders really to remain clinically active, engaged in research, still a part of the education mission, all of those things?
[Dr Amy Moore]
Yeah, that’s a great question and essential to, I think, the definition of what is academic medicine and those of us who are participating beyond just even the leadership. I think when we choose our career paths and choosing academics, that means we are trying to advance our fields with research and innovation and discovery. But also, even more important than that discovery aspect is the education and training the next generation to fall in love with the fields that we choose in academic medicine.
And so, when we think about our leaders who can emulate that, it is important for both those learners, but also the fields, right? So that’s where we can push our science forward because we have the clinically relevant questions and see that be inspiring to our future generations.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. In terms of your own career, I take it that you are still practicing clinically. What does that look like in terms of balancing your clinical time and all the leadership responsibilities?
[Dr Amy Moore]
Yeah, that is the question of the day, honestly. I, as this new role as interim dean, I have become very more rigid in my clinical. So, I have one day of operating a week and then a half a day of clinic, usually every other week, which I will tell you seem to sometimes be my easiest days of the week when I’m trying to balance the big job of running the college.
But the clinical work is also where I find a separate part of my brain that goes into this automatic instincts of, okay, here’s patient care that drives my joy, which allows me to balance the leadership that is also really challenging these days of making sure I get to do both, right? I get to take care of my patients, but then also change and put the hat on of, let’s take this teamwork to another level.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, on a sort of a different level, but I think it’s very similar. You know, a lot of folks do find niches for themselves, and it may not be the interim dean of the entire college, but, you know, it may be something like podcasting.
I mean, there’s lots of roles that we can take on and directions that we can go. And I feel like that really helps to protect against burnout for a lot of academic physicians. Like if I, I mean, I love my clinical time, but you can imagine if you were just doing that day in and day out, like, and doing the same things, that’s a recipe for burnout, right?
[Dr Amy Moore]
I totally agree. I mean, at least for me, I mean, some people thrive in the clinical work. And so, there’s not to discount that at all.
But I agree with you in the sense, for me, my brain likes it all. I like to see the challenges come from a different, you know, how can I have this conversation better? How can I get our team to work more efficiently?
What are the operational challenges that we’re facing that could improve my clinical days? And I do think that that multi-tasking in my brain, not at the same time, has allowed me to maintain this passion for what I do. And combating burnout, which, you know, we all are subject to at some point in our careers.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. Yeah. That is, that’s one benefit of having all of these different roles.
I’m sure there’s other benefits and challenges too. Can you speak to some of the challenges?
[Dr Amy Moore]
I think that the challenge comes from where, you know, prioritization, right? And knowing, you know, what is having, like, I always want to say, like, I feel like I’m always behind or that the list keeps growing and I’m not ever, you know, feeling I’m on top of things. And I think that’s a challenge when you have these different facets that are pushing and pulling.
And so, I guess maybe the strategy is also the challenge is prioritizing effectively so that we’re not, you know, dropping the ball. And I think that I’m learning this. I, by all means, don’t feel to be an expert yet on the balance.
Maybe it’s balanced over time and certainly not in a day. But I think that’s the challenge is making sure that, you know, when big things are happening, I’m able to prioritize and not be conflicted with the other two missions that may take compromise.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. Yeah. You, of course, did not just drop into the position of interim dean directly from a full-time clinical schedule.
You know, leadership happens in jumps. And for early career faculty who may just now be taking on some leadership responsibilities, how do you know, you know, what to keep doing, what to step back on? I mean, it has to fit into the same number of hours of the day, or at least we hope so.
So how do you start that prioritization and know sort of where to cut back and make those, you know, make the decisions that’s going to best move you forward?
[Dr Amy Moore]
Yeah, that’s a great question. And, you know, maybe I would do a little bit differently now. However, my best advice to those junior faculty members is to say yes.
Too often we’re told like, oh, if you, you know, you can prioritize or you can block your time. And I think early on that you don’t know what saying yes will bring. And, you know, it does take some nights and weekends.
And I don’t think we’ve moved to where everything can be done in our, you know, our 40-hour work week or certainly within 80 hours, we would hope. But I think early on you have to, you have to give and explore, and you have to show up. And then you learn, well, maybe I really liked that, or I sat on this council and like that, that didn’t align with what I enjoy doing.
So why would I continue to spend that time? I also give advice about it’s not a shotgun approach. You need to be strategic in your yeses.
Meaning if you have a, there’s always societies you can join, but what’s this society that aligns with your clinical work, your research, your education and passion. And too often we’re like, oh, I’m going to do a committee on each of these four other societies. No, find your one or two and dig in and grow within them.
And it does take work. It takes effort. It takes time.
Committee meetings are usually in the evenings. The weekends are when you have your meetings and so are like the annual meetings. And I do think as you learn what you’re good at, it also has to compliment what you like.
And so, saying yes is, would be my advice. Say yes, because you never know.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. And I think for seasoned faculty members out there, where you arrive today was from the yeses that you said in the past. And a lot of us never would have predicted when we were medical students that we would be doing exactly what we’re doing today.
And a lot of that.
[Dr Amy Moore]
We agree.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. A lot of that comes from yeses for sure. Now, as you say yes, that’s taking time from the other things that you’re doing.
What are some strategies for protecting the areas that still matter the most to you?
[Dr Amy Moore]
That’s key. And I would say that having a supportive, significant other has been, for me, Amy Moore, has been essential. My husband, I met before med school, and so he’s not in medicine, but we have three kids.
They’re 19, 17, and 15. And early on, I was really great at work, right? I was great at my clinical work that had such an importance in my life, and probably a little bit of a workaholic.
But it took having someone helping me keep perspective. Hey, need you home. Hey, kids are asking for you.
Hey, what can we do? And I am so appreciative of that prioritization. Also knowing when I would come home, you know, put the phone up.
Don’t pull out the computer until kids are in bed. We have family dinner one night a week. Maybe we should be doing it more nights.
You can judge me on that. But I think that prioritization of my personal life has allowed me to be so much better in my professional life. And to take it to how do you balance the different pressures within the professional life is remembering, you know, what you have to do, you know, to do great patient care and not compromise that.
There are always restrictions on what we have to do. We have to write our notes. Like that has to be done.
We have to take call. Those are our service commitments. And then knowing once I have that optimized, then I can start bringing in the others to make sure I’m also educating and, you know, paying attention and trying to write the next big grant for my innovation.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah. That’s actually a great point to lead us into the next portion of our conversation. And that is research.
What particular challenges are involved when you are heavily doing research and having running projects and running research teams and you take on leadership responsibilities?
[Dr Amy Moore]
Goes back to the definition of teamwork, right? And having these teams that you build together and partners, you know, that become to your success. I feel in my research, I was, I’m the one writing the grants.
I’m the one, you know, managing the finances and the pressures that that tends to make sure that my people get paid, right? And that’s, you know, when’s my next grant going to come? And the way we do the work is by, you know, hiring the right people on the team who have helped, you know, as I’ve gained these leadership positions, I’m sure the work has felt heavy on their shoulders, but I would see it as teams, the teamwork.
Those are the people who help get the work done when we’re rising in our leadership, you know, opportunities and then carving out the time. Weekly lab meetings have to get done.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah. How do you go about making your team really high functioning? Like what are some little nuggets that team leaders can use to really get the most efficiency and high performance out of their team?
[Dr Amy Moore]
Yeah, I love that. So, I read, you know, it’s an old, they’re old books, but I will tell you some of the older leadership books can have such impact. And it’s by John Maxwell, and I think they were written in the early 2000s.
And, you know, teamwork makes the dream work or the 17 indisputable laws of teamwork. And John Maxwell speaks to, you know, communication as being an essential part of these high performing teams. And there’s a whole list of, you know, these 17 fundamental truths, but I really think it comes down to communication.
It is, even now in my leadership role, I see that when people are bringing forth problems, it’s either a lack of communication, a miscommunication, or, you know, just a misunderstanding. And so, I think when we want our teams to be high performing, we have to make sure we’re on agreement in the mission of what we’re trying to accomplish. We also are very, I’m very intentional about role definition so that there is lack of ambiguity of to what your role is on the team.
And I certainly believe in respect for all members of the team, no matter their hierarchy and experience, your voice matters.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah. Once you have your team in place, and now perhaps you are taking on leadership responsibilities outside of your team, you still have that vested interest in the success of the team that you dreamt, that you put together and that you cultivated into a high functioning team. How do you then trust that team to sort of move on more independently because you have other responsibilities?
[Dr Amy Moore]
Yeah, it’s great. I do believe in empowering the people around you. You can’t do it all.
And I do know in my more junior leadership times is I wanted to run all the positions and I wanted to micromanage. And I have grown by understanding that people are very capable. And by empowering the members of the team to do their roles and then give critical feedback, right?
It is not this, oh, go and you do it. It is making sure that communication is very clear. It’s respectful, but it’s also, we’re all learning together.
And so, I feel that as I’ve stepped away more, they understand what would be expected with me not there. But then my expectation is when we meet, it’s going to be efficient. We’re going to go through it.
They are going to know what I need for us to push the next forward. What is the evidence that we came? What are these outcome metrics?
What’s your questions that I can help push it forward so that they do feel empowered to keep things moving when I’m not directly there.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah. For academic physicians, promotion is really a top of mind for a lot of folks. And there are specific steps that need to be reached in order to attain the next level from assistant professor to associate to full professor.
And sometimes leadership takes away from the time you need to complete those steps. And so, some folks would say, well, I’ll wait until I’m a full professor and then I’ll go after some leadership roles. What advice do you have for folks who are climbing that ladder and checking those boxes and yet also maybe want to pursue leadership opportunities, which I would think is a good thing.
[Dr Amy Moore]
Oh, I totally agree. I mean, having leadership opportunities is just personal growth. And I would recommend it to all, although not all people want it.
But promotion and tenure are what I think are some of the most anchoring tenets of being in an academic medicine. And the promotion process needs to be separated from compensation. And in knowing that too often we’re in this, as physicians, we’re always driving to the next thing.
As faculty, you know, okay, I’m going to get into the best medical school. I’m going to get into the best residency. I’m going to get into the next fellowship.
Then I’m going to become a faculty. Oh, and then I’m going to get promoted. And there’s great linearity into that.
There’s great that we know this is the next step. I think that is a benefit of our career in medicine. Others outside of medicine don’t have that same linear path.
But we also know the idea of asking, okay, when this is, I’ll be able to, is a fallacy. We can’t go under that narrative, right? You know, when I’m less busy or when I get this done, I’ll start pursuing leadership career.
When I get promoted, I’ll start. I think if you’re waiting to your professor, you might’ve missed the boat on really developing the skills. And I would argue you probably wouldn’t be a professor if you didn’t demonstrate leadership.
So, I do think that having that national recognition as that, you know, lunch pin of becoming a professor, you get that national reputation through investing time and service into leadership along the way.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah, very, very well said. There is a term that I’ve heard used here recently, sustainable excellence. What is sustainable excellence?
And what does that look like in particular for academic medicine folks?
[Dr Amy Moore]
Yeah, sustainable excellence, I love it. I think it’s an idea that we can, despite the changes that are happening around us. And so maybe this is my personal opinion and take on it.
So, take that, and we can probably Google the right definition. So, for us and for me, I think sustainable excellence means having aspiration to do your best over time, despite the external pressures or changes that we can’t always control. But we know our true North and being able to say, you know, this is our path that may not be linear to speak to the previous question, but that, you know, we’re always striving and we’re going to show up with integrity.
We’re going to show up with intention of good and knowing that hopefully over time, that excellence is sustained without tipping and being, you know, to the burnout, right? Because that’s unfortunate part is that you’re just striving so hard to this holy grail that we can’t ever achieve that then you’re just left with this disappointment of coming from a place of lack, lacking that.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah. As we are striving for sustainable excellence, because, you know, if our excellence crashes, then we’re no longer excellent. So, we have to sustain it.
As we are really striving for that, how can we model healthy and sustainable work habits for those who are watching, both, you know, our colleagues and medical learners?
[Dr Amy Moore]
I love that. I think as a leader, that’s where we can lean in. I make sure that I create some guardrails and tell my team they can have those guardrails.
I may respond to an email after, I don’t know, 8 p.m. I do not expect a response until you are working the next day. If it’s a weekend and I’m doing work, I’ve started to do these schedule sends because they don’t need to get it in my real time of working. Or I’ve asked for permission that if I send you an email and it is your weekend or your evening or your time off or your vacation, please do not respond.
I’m more sending this so that you can have, you know, visibility to the issue. I also think that we need to take our vacations. It hurts me when I’m seeing that people are losing their vacation hours because they’ve hit the max that you can have.
We need our people to take their vacations to try to invest in themselves. Even if it’s a stay-at-home vacation, I think that we don’t have a culture of we’re always working. There’s always going to be more work.
There are more patients to care for. There are more grants to write. There are more learners needing our, you know, inspirational guidance.
But we as leaders have to ensure that our team is taken care of. And that part of modeling it ourselves is a little bit harder to do. But I do have these same guardrails and making sure I articulate them and I communicate them so that they know it is too okay to have guardrails.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. As you look back at your career, what lessons have been the most valuable for you?
[Dr Amy Moore]
I think understanding that we don’t always influence the outcome. I used to think if I could just work harder, I’ll get the result. And that’s with research, right?
If I just, you know, apply so many grants, I’m going to get that big funding. And my idea is so great. And if I just work hard enough or just write about it, I’m going to get it.
I think over time I’ve realized that I don’t know what the future holds. And it’s not all under my control. And I go back to like the sphere of influence, like what can I control?
What can I influence? And what’s out of the control? I think my framework around that is important.
So that’s a lesson I’ve learned over time. I’ve also learned over time to be kind to myself, to know that I didn’t handle that conversation well. I would do it so differently now.
I’m even thinking about, I keep saying, I think through my questions here. And I would do that differently if we were to start over, Dr. Mike. But the reality is I’m human and the people we work with are human.
And we have to give grace. And I think giving my grace to myself is sometimes the hardest part of it. I forgive others very easily.
And it’s to myself, I think is challenging. And so that’s an ongoing goal and effort. I would say that’s important I’ve learned over time.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, and part of that grace is taking vacations.
[Dr Amy Moore]
Yeah, which I start tomorrow and I’m going to do it. I’m going to put my guardrails up. I’m only going to answer emails that are essential and I won’t even check them for a few days at a time.
That’s going to feel so great.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, I love that. Now, as you’ve taken on your new role as Interim Dean, what are you still learning? What lessons have been forced upon you as you’ve embarked on this role?
[Dr Amy Moore]
I’ve learned so much and I continue to learn. I think every day is a learning day. The biggest change has been the visibility of the leadership, the speaking, the understanding that, you know, what’s happening in the media, for example, and how we respond to those issues that have impacted Ohio State over the last five, six months.
We’ve been in the as high as the New York Times, right? And my response is echoed and visible to others. And knowing that I am a visual of what the college means is super important to me.
And learning, you know, the people of this college, I would say this of Ohio State in general, the people are amazing. And I think that I keep learning more about what we are accomplishing and making sure that we can continue to highlight that great work despite whatever else is happening. The college is a super complex place aligned with this large medical center, which is, you know, seeing that interplay has been something I’m learning.
How do we maintain our identity as a college of a university, but then also have the stresses and pressures of our faculty being part of this Wexner Medical Center and that juxtaposition of these two big roles that you think would be so aligned. There are places where they aren’t so well aligned, I should say. So, there’s lots to learn as the interim dean.
And, you know, it has been a privilege to be able to serve this way.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yes, yes. And we should extend grace to you as well, because, you know, a lot of us sort of, it’s easy to take for granted when you’re working in a world-class institution like Ohio State. Like it’s just, it’s there and we’re practicing in it and yay.
But there’s a lot of effort and work behind the scenes of maintaining, you know, that degree of, you know, awareness for what you’re doing, the research, the clinical care that we’re providing, teaching the learners who are coming up behind us. There’s a lot that goes into making all of those things happen that we don’t always see. And, you know, it’s a lot of work for everyone involved.
And I think everyone’s just, you know, doing the best they can. And with grace on ourselves and on others, it should, yeah, and continue on in. So, hats off to you.
And you’re doing a great job. We really appreciate your leadership.
[Dr Amy Moore]
Thank you. It’s, it is exactly that, right? We have so many leaders amongst this college who are doing a great job to keep the missions just moving forward.
We have incredible momentum. And being able to be in this position of transition, it has been, you know, very joyful to meet all the people who are really making this happen. So, thank you for that comment.
Because it is true, there’s a lot that goes behind the scenes to make sure that we can do that great clinical work. We can do that great research. And we can teach these learners to accomplish their dreams and goals over time.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah. Important work. Important work for all of us.
[Dr Amy Moore]
Absolutely.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
I do want to mention that there, we may have a lot of listeners for this particular episode because we have the Interim Dean of the College of Medicine on as our guest. But I just want to let the audience know that we have lots more faculty development content for you. So, if you head over to famecast.org, that’s our landing site where all of the episodes live. And then over at the FAME website, so the Center for Faculty Advancement, Mentoring, and Engagement, if you have not visited the FAME website and you are a faculty member, you should because there are lots of great opportunities for developing in our academic career. Everything from promotion and tenure, you know, we have how to be a better teacher, how to work in teams and lead teams, and we have mentoring episodes. And of course, at the FAME website, we have lots of in-person activities.
There are also virtual activities you can attend. So, lots and lots of resources. So be sure to head over to FAME.
Again, we’ll have a link in the show notes for this episode over at famecast.org. So once again, Dr. Amy Moore, Professor of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery and Interim Dean for the Ohio State University College of Medicine. Thank you so much for stopping by today.
[Dr Amy Moore]
Yeah, thank you. It’s been great. Appreciate you.
[MUSIC]
[Dr Mike Patrick]
We are back with just enough time to say thanks. Once again, to all of you for taking time out of your day and making FAMEcast a part of it. We really do appreciate your support.
Also, thanks again to our guests this week, Dr. Amy Moore, Professor of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery and Interim Dean of the Ohio State University College of Medicine. Don’t forget, you can find us wherever podcasts are found. There might be an easier way for you to subscribe as well.
We’re in the Apple Podcast app, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Audible and most other podcast apps for iOS and Android. Our landing site is famecast.org. You’ll find our entire archive of past programs there, along with show notes for each of the episodes, our terms of use agreement and that handy contact page if you would like to suggest a future topic for the program.
Reviews are also helpful wherever you get your podcasts. We always appreciate when you share your thoughts about the show. And again, be sure to check out those additional resources from FAME and the Ohio State University College of Medicine.
You can find them on our website. Just head over to famecast.org, click on the resources tab there at the top of the page, and then you will find links to advancing your clinical teaching and faculty development for medical educators. Again, group and institutional pricing is available for both sets of modules.
Just contact fame at osumc.edu for more details. And again, you can find both of those module sets on the resources tab at famecast.org. Thanks again for stopping by.
And until next time, this is Dr. Mike saying stay focused, stay balanced and keep reaching for the stars. So long, everybody.
[MUSIC]
