Show Notes
Description
Careers in academic medicine rarely follow a straight line. Dr. Jennah Morgan shares practical strategies for exploring meaningful work, growing into leadership, turning ideas into educational programs, developing scholarship, and building a career that aligns clinical service, family, and personal values. We hope you can join us!
Topic
The Early Career in Academic Medicine
Learning Objectives
At the end of this activity, participants should be able to:
- Identify professional strengths, values, and exploratory opportunities that can guide early-career choices in academic medicine.
- Apply practical strategies for leading colleagues, managing competing priorities, and navigating difficult conversations.
- Design an educational or clinical program that aligns stakeholders, measurable outcomes, evaluation, and dissemination.
- Develop a sustainable career plan that integrates mentorship, sponsorship, scholarship, leadership, clinical work, and personal priorities.
Guest
Dr. Jennah Morgan
Program Director, Emergency Medicine/Internal Medicine Combined Residency
Assistant Professor of Emergency Medicine and Internal Medicine
The Ohio State University College of Medicine
Links
Episode Transcript
[Dr Mike Patrick]
This episode of FAMEcast is brought to you by the Center for Faculty Advancement, Mentoring and Engagement at the Ohio State University College of Medicine.
[MUSIC]
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of FAMEcast. We are a faculty development podcast from the Ohio State University College of Medicine.
This is Dr. Mike coming to you from the campus of Ohio State. It’s episode 28. We’re calling this one Ages and Stages, the Early Career.
I want to welcome all of you to the program. We are so happy to have you with us again. You know, careers in academic medicine rarely follow a straight line.
Early career faculty must balance clinical work, teaching, scholarship, leadership opportunities, and life outside of medicine, all while trying to determine where they can make the greatest contribution. Today, we’ll explore how thoughtful experimentation, strong relationships, and values-based decisions can help faculty find meaningful work, grow into leadership, and build a career designed to last. This episode also kicks off a new series on the podcast.
We’re calling it Ages and Stages. Today, we’re focusing on the early career, but in future episodes, we’re going to talk about the middle career, the late career, the seasoned career, and then bridging the gaps between all of these ages and stages. That’s all coming your way down the road.
But today, we have a fantastic guest as we talk about the early career. It is Dr. Jennah Morgan. She is Program Director of the Emergency Medicine-Internal Medicine Combined Residency Program and an Assistant Professor of Emergency Medicine and Internal Medicine at Ohio State.
Before we get to her, I do want to remind you that we have some additional faculty development resources for you. If you head over to famecast.org and click on the Resources tab up there at the top of the page, you’ll find two links. One goes to a group of learning modules called Advancing Your Clinical Teaching.
It is a series of 17 modules developed by faculty development experts at Ohio State. And these modules can be taken separately or as a full series. We have another set of modules called Faculty Development for Medical Educators or FD4ME.
It is a robust collection of learning modules really designed to equip medical educators with advanced teaching skills in both clinical and classroom settings. You can find both of these sets of modules again over at famecast.org. Just click on the Resources tab up there at the top of the page.
Also, group and institutional pricing is available for both sets of modules, and many of them are free for faculty at Ohio State. Just contact fame at osumc.edu for details. Also, I want to remind you the information presented in every episode of FAMEcast is for general educational purposes only.
And your use of this audio program is subject to the FAMEcast Terms of Use Agreement, which you can find at famecast.org. So, let’s take a quick break. We’ll get Dr. Jennah Morgan settled into the studio. And then we will be back to explore the early career in academic medicine. It’s coming up right after this.
[MUSIC]
[Dr Mike Patrick]
She cares for patients in the emergency department and the hospital wards.
She teaches, mentors, and builds programs where ideas meet impact. And she leads physicians in training in the places where professional growth meets purpose. Our guest today is Dr. Jennah Morgan. She serves as program director of the Emergency Medicine Internal Medicine Combined Residency Program at Ohio State. And she is an assistant professor of emergency medicine and internal medicine with appointments in the emergency department and the Division of Hospital Medicine. She is here to help us explore the nuts and bolts of the early career in academic medicine.
But before we dive in, let’s offer a warm welcome to our guest, Dr. Jennah Morgan. Welcome to FAMEcast.
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Oh, thank you for having me.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
We are really excited that you are here. And the reason is we are embarking on a series within our podcast called Ages and Stages, where we’re really going to focus on the early career, and then we’re going to focus on the middle career, the late career, the seasoned career. And then we’ll have an episode on bridging the gaps between all of these ages and stages.
And the point really is, I think there’s a threefold point to this. One, there’s going to be folks who are just rising in academic medicine, you know, maybe graduating from medical school, they’re in residency, they’re getting closer to, you know, early academic career. And I think that, you know, talking with you will provide some insight into what to expect.
Your colleagues who are also early career physicians can kind of compare, you know, like, where am I? Not that it’s a race, but, you know, you may have some ideas that they hadn’t thought of. And then I think really important is the late career and the seasoned career are pretty well removed from the way that medicine is today in 2026 compared to when they trained.
And I think it’s just helpful for us all to have empathy in where each other is in their career journey. So that’s kind of the big picture of what we’re about to embark upon in our series within the podcast. So, you know, you are first and we are talking about the early academic career.
So, I wanted to ask you, you know, being in emergency medicine and internal medicine, specifically hospital medicine and medical education, your involvement in the combined residency program, how did your own transition from residency to becoming an attending sort of help shape that professional identity? I’m sure when you were in medical school, you hadn’t quite envisioned everything that you’re doing right now, correct? It just happens.
Yeah. Can you just talk a little bit about how that transition occurred and what set you on the right path?
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Yeah. I mean, thank you for asking me that question. Yeah.
I, you know, I can’t say there was a clear point where everything snapped, but I will be honest. Even before starting medical school, there were two personal aspects of my life that I really wanted to maintain. One, I wanted to be a healer.
And I know it sounds very grandiose, but that’s how I envisioned myself. And I also wanted to be an educator and sort of whatever I did, those two components had to be very present. And so, before starting medical school, I worked at a middle school as an executive assistant, but there I taught guided reading, I taught math intervention, and I sort of like really got to what my appetite for what education meant in a very formal setting.
And I loved it. But I still wanted to fulfill that other part of myself, like being a healer, being a physician. And so, I applied to medical school, thankfully was accepted and did residency.
And doing dual training, I think it’s such a niche area, and you sort of have to be exposed to it in order to get it. Where I trained at SUNY Downstate Kings County, they had fantastic EMIM program, and the residents there were just so inspirational. And working with them, I said, that is the type of physician I want to be sort of a training that has breadth and depth.
And so that is how I got into the whole dual training thing is sort of like I saw it and I was like, I have to do it. And when we’re advising students who are applying dual training, we literally say only do this if you have to, because there are sacrifices that come with the training experience. But sometimes you just have to do it for how you envision your life and your career.
And so, the transition from residency, I sort of did not have a concrete plan yet. And I think it was helpful for to just sort of like jump in with both feet into what was most interesting to me and what was most natural to me and what lit me up. And those points where when I started at OSU, which is such a fantastic place to be because of the amount of resources, the amount of people who are willing to just pull you aside and tell you advice and tell you how to maximize your experience here.
And so, I took all of that in and I really just looked at like what makes me excited. And so, when I was teaching on shift, right, I was always staying late after shift because I’m talking so much teaching. Sort of that like lit me up.
Interacting with the residents sort of when you see their aha moments, like there’s no other drug like it when you just see their eyes light up with like understanding. I, you know, I love that. And then also speaking with my colleagues and talking about how we could do it better and how we can optimize it and how we can get to the next level.
And that’s sort of how I got into sort of like formal education. And first, I started out as an assistant program director, working with Dr. Martin, who was an excellent mentor. And then ultimately, when he retired, the opportunity opened up to become program director.
And, you know, it’s very daunting. He was a program director for a very long time. And so, you know, I was very I am not young, but I’m very junior.
And so, it was daunting. But I think sort of being able to have those aha moments, being able to speak to residents sort of like at a bird’s eye view, and help them maximize those opportunities, help them really milk out the experience of OSU. I, you know, it’s been really fulfilling and really exciting.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah. A couple of things that you said really struck a chord with me. One is that you really brought your experiences, even going back to undergrad, with you into your academic career.
And a lot of people don’t give themselves enough credit for their past experiences. And so, you know, you may have a little bit of imposter syndrome when you first embark on becoming an attending after your training, but we’re all lifelong learners and we’re all bringing things in with us. And so, your past experiences are really important.
And then the other thing that I wanted to point out is, you know, being interested in a dual discipline career really set you up to do all the things that you’re doing today and really gave you practice of juggling two different, you know, divisions that have different maybe expectations, different requirements from each other, different priorities. And so, juggling all of that really has set you up for the work that you’re doing today. Now, I want to then move that into as you’re beginning your academic career, there’s so many choices.
And I think for you, because of your past and what you brought in and your training, those choices, you know, became evident and you had, you know, we’re doing enough that it was a little more difficult to just pick up everything that came along. But for someone who maybe hasn’t had that focus when they’re presented with all of the opportunities in early career, how do you identify, you know, what’s really going to be the most meaningful and fit into the big picture the best rather than just, you know, trying everything?
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Sure. Yeah, I think that’s a really good question, just because, you know, when you’re in medical training, there’s sort of like a set path, you know, it’s like, okay, you do this, you do that, this is your next block, this is your next rotation that you apply. And then once you’re finished, it’s sort of what do I do now?
I think it just takes being really honest with yourself about what lights you up. What are you really good at and lean into that. And sometimes it might feel like it has nothing to do with medicine, but I think this is where you let creativity, you know, enter the picture.
And so, for me, I think from a very early age, you know, like I said, education was important to me. Being someone who could contribute, that was very important to me. But in terms of skills, from the time I was six years old, my parents were putting a mic in my hand and putting me on stage to speak.
I was like, okay. And so, you know, I knew I could speak in front of people, and I knew I could sort of express myself well. And what does that have to do with medicine?
I think on the surface, people would say that’s pretty irrelevant, but actually it’s not. You know, if you have a patient facing clinical practice, then it’s highly relevant. If you’re in medical education, it’s highly relevant.
If you’re in leadership, it’s highly relevant. And so, like just leaning into what really lights you up and what comes easily to you. And then with that, also look at what you love, but also may be challenging and don’t back away from that either.
And so, for me, I think like sort of organizing things and seeing my ideas come to fruition is really important. But sort of like focusing on the minutia is really challenging for me. But you have to like sort of have those two things in order to have a successful product.
And so really saying, okay, how can I get better at it? How can I partner with people who can teach me, but also who can maybe like we can be a team and really work together and get to the end successfully. Right.
Like our program manager, Janine, she just her attention for detail is phenomenal. And she’ll say like X, Y, Z. And here’s the nuance.
And I’m like, yes, here. Actually, let me know how I can help with this. And so, I think just being willing to collaborate and being willing to be honest with yourself.
And then I would say the final thing is I know it sounds pretty fluffy, but looking at your values and looking at sort of who do I want to be in the world at the end of all of this, when I look back, what do I want that narrative to be? And it can seem pretty, like I said, grandiose, but it’s not because I think that’s how like no matter how challenging your path is, you’ll say, OK, it was worth it because I’m meeting my goals. I’m getting to live out my values every day.
And, you know, that’s the way that you can really just sort of set yourself on a path. Yeah.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, absolutely. So, your strengths, you know, playing into your strengths is important, but also, you know, challenging yourself and maybe doing something that’s a little outside of your comfort zone. But maybe only one of those things at a time.
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
And then, you know, the benefit of that is you may find something that you never expected that will become a major part of your career. For me, podcasting is an example of that. You know, I never thought when I was in medical school or even during my training that I would be doing something like this.
But when you, you know, take a step out of your comfort zone, try something, you may find something that’s really rewarding that you never would have thought of. Or you may say, I don’t want to do this anymore. This is not something that’s good for me.
But, you know, you have to try things in order to find out what’s going to work and what’s not going to work. Now, in the early career, when you are kind of bombarded with opportunities, you know, teaching, serving on committees, you know, you may be looking for a mentor, you’re getting involved in faculty development programs. There’s really a lot of things that can sometimes then start to feel like busy work, like, oh, I need to do all of these things.
How do you kind of flip that from it being an obligation to really a tool that can help your career thrive moving forward?
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Yeah, I think just sort of, I’ll just say, like, I’m very into like, like personal development and self-help books. And one of my favorite books is The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And one of the habits is beginning with the end in mind.
So that’s sort of like thinking about your values, thinking long term, like at the end of the process, what do you want it to look like? And I think with that, if you sort of like think, OK, what do I want my career to be? What are my values?
Look for small opportunities to meet it and like small, low lift opportunities. For example, if you’re like they have the learning communities, if you’re like, OK, I want to give this teaching a shot or like just learn a connection a shot, you could co-lead a learning community. And that way, like if you’re like, actually, this year, it was my thing.
You can just say to your co-leader, you know, I’ll let you carry it forward. You were much stronger at it than me. Or even if that commitment is too big, you can start with one session.
Like I, you know, for a didactic say, whatever topic you’re passionate about, like let’s say you love DKA and you want to teach all the nuances of DKA, just do one, you know, lecture about it. And one that can help you because you have a canned lecture that can give to other places. But two, it’s like you can see if it’s your thing.
If you’re like, that was awful, not do it. That’s great. But if you’re like, actually, that was fantastic.
Their questions actually made me think more deeply about it. They, you know, brought up things that I never even thought about that I’m actually going to go back and research and add to the presentation. You know, something can come from that, or it can be, you know, a small project.
It can be in clinical leadership. It can be social gatherings. I mean, sort of like I lean into what you’re passionate about, leaning to what lights you up and start small.
And you can see it can quickly become big if you love it.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
You know, in our early career, we think about mentorship a lot, especially being the mentee in that relationship. And then we also hear about things like sponsors and coaches. Let’s actually kind of work through those.
What has your experience been in terms of mentorship?
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Oh, I, one at OSU, just the culture of mentorship is unmatched. I haven’t seen anything quite like it before coming here where people really want to bring you on. They want, they feel successful by seeing you be successful.
And I would look at like when I say mentor, I would look at a mentor as being someone who offers perspective and who gives advice and who really like helps you navigate the terrain by talking about their path and saying like, oh, I see you. And maybe, you know, we have the same challenges here. This is how I would navigate it.
Or actually, I’m really good at this and I see you’re struggling there. This is how I would navigate that. I would say a sponsor and there are a lot of sponsors at OSU as well.
That’s someone who really advocates for you when opportunities become available. And that can be a person like in front of you or more often than not, it’s behind your back. Right?
They’re like, actually, Jennah would be great for this. Let me talk to them, even though they know that you really wanted that the whole time, you know, let me let me see how they feel about it. Just to really put you forward and put you on the map.
And like OSU again also has great sponsors like Diane Gorgas has been just a great sponsor and advocate for me. And coaches and other networks, those are like formal relationships. Same.
They have a program called Fly. And with that program, they also have a coach available that you can work with. And my coach was absolutely fantastic.
I was at a point where, you know, there were a lot of balls in the air, and I really wanted to get my summer immersion project off the ground. But they were like, I was scared. I was, you know, feeling imposter syndrome and there were a lot of organizational things.
Like I said, it’s not my strength, but she helped me. She’s like, OK, this is what you’re going to do. And this is a good idea.
And this is a good idea. And ultimately, we just started. Right.
And she said, like, you just have to start. There’s going to be hiccups. There’s going to be things that you have to do again and fix.
But you just got to start. And that was really like the best advice and the best coaching that I could have received. And so, you know, all of those factors, mentorship, sponsorship, coaching really play into people having a successful career.
It’s never, you know, any path that anyone takes, it’s never them individually. It’s always a village, as people say. And so, you can really have a village.
And sometimes informally, like the mentorship culture, people just chatting in the hallway over food, and sometimes it’s formally like fly getting an official coach. Yeah.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. I love that you mentioned fly, because, you know, in your in your department, it may very well be that you have folks who are offering to be a mentor or to sponsor a coach. And, you know, maybe those relationships develop organically.
But there are other departments where there isn’t as strong of a culture of mentorship and sponsorship and coaching. And so, getting involved at the college level, even outside of your department in a program like fly, and there we have others, Atlas is another example that that can really help you connect with folks who will be mentors and sponsors and coaches. But you really, you know, you have to sometimes step out of your comfort zone and join those groups, right?
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Yeah, I agree. And to that point, I agree. Like, I think so spanning into departments, I would say the informal mentorship for one department is stronger than informal mentorship in another.
But not to say the other one isn’t as strong. So, I can see that it’s, you know, sort of departments dependent. And I can also say with fly, I developed sort of a network when they put you in a group where you, you know, you work with one another on projects monthly.
But then even afterwards, like I met another woman who went from assistant program director and is now the program director for surgery and like we connected with fly. And so now we’re just like, hey, you know, when we’re talking about problems or collaborating over how to fix things that our residents are working on together, that connection started at fly. And so, there’s a lot that can start from formal settings.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, as you have transitioned from being an assistant program director to being the program director of the combined residency program, especially as an early academic career person, sometimes you’re going to be supporting faculty who are not that far removed from where you were. How do you how do you navigate being a leader when you haven’t been a leader very long, if that makes sense?
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Yeah, full transparency is something I’m still learning, but I think there are two big shifts, and I it one shift didn’t really solidify with me until probably towards the end of this year. As an assistant program director, it’s almost you have a lot more flexibility. You can really lean into exactly what you’re passionate about.
Like, I want to work on this. This is how I’m going to make you shine. Dr. Marie, this is how I’m going to make the program shine. This is my alley. And as a program director, your view is big. It’s like the program has to be successful and you have to sort of take in people’s concerns, people’s desires, the program requirements, the ACGME, all of that.
And you have to frame it in a way that makes sense. And then ultimately you have to make a decision. I, you know, and I and I think it’s important to say you have to make a decision because I was afraid to make a decision for a long time.
I really was like I wanted to hear what people thought. I didn’t want to make anyone upset. I didn’t want anyone to say, oh, Jennah’s this or Jennah’s that.
But I realized that at the end of the day, if there is some accountability that has to be had, it starts with me. So therefore, the decision is mine. And that epiphany, it was hard.
They like, it came, you know, it came through a challenging situation, but I realized that that’s just what it is. And there is space and that’s not saying you should be tyrannical. It’s very important that you take in information and even take your time.
Right. It doesn’t have to be this is this and that is that. Like, you know, an EM thinks can be very high stakes and there is a place for this is what it’s going to be.
We’re going to move forward and we’re going to see. But ultimately, I think you as a as like the leader, you have to be brave and you have to say, actually, this is what we’re going to do. And it could be hard.
Right. I think there are going to be points where people disagree with you vehemently. And there were times where people disagreed with me vehemently.
And during those times, you know, tools that you can use, like private conversations, like, hey, actually, let’s take this offline. We’re going to chat just me and you where we can really get into the weeds of this and figure out how to make the best move forward in the best way. Or you can say, like, this is ultimately our goal.
And I know this is hard, but this is how we’re what we’re going to do to get to our goal. And we’re going to be happy that we did this. Yeah.
You know, I think that that’s the biggest realization. And also, I think what I said before, leaning into your strengths. So not necessarily just your passions, your strengths and not being afraid to delegate.
And so, while I am working on my organizational skills, I have someone who is an organizational master type, a perfect, you know, you have it right. That is your goal. We’re going to like, you know, we’ll collaborate and we’ll get to the end.
But you know that you’re going to run that. If someone, my APD, he’s like a master at research. He’s just so good at it.
That is all you. Right. Any resident project, anything, they are going to Greg and that’s it.
You know, no conversation about it. That’s just what it is. And so really like learning to delegate and to divide is important, too.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And hopefully it gets a little easier, a little easier as you as you do it more and more.
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
I hope so.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
And, you know, when you figure out what your vision is and can articulate it to those you are leading and in a way that they can buy into your vision, it makes it a little bit easier. But it’s certainly easier to talk about than to practice for sure. Like so many things in medicine and elsewhere.
You have been very successful at starting unique and novel programs within your department. And just some examples of the social emergency medicine summer immersion experience. You have a social determinants of health curriculum, Impact ED.
You’ve really put things together. What moves an idea from just that, an idea, to actually a program that you implement? What do you need skill set wise to make that happen?
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Yeah, I think a few things. One, the vision. And there is a little bit of trying to really push for clarity of your vision.
And you could start a grandiose like, you know, if I had all the money, what would this look like? And then you can scale it back like, OK, that’s what I want it to be. Now, with what I have, what can I do?
And so really pushing for clarity with the vision. Then in thinking about like who you want to be involved, who you want to impact, what will they ultimately like experience by going through your experience? So that’s one pushing for a lot of clarity.
And then once you have that thinking about, OK, so who can help me do this? And a lot of times you don’t have a lot of resources. Sometimes you have a chair who’s very generous.
Sometimes people are like, actually, there’s no money. Support this, which is more common than not. And so, it’s saying, OK, well, how can I leverage this?
Right. Like, how can I say like, hey, actually, you know, we’re working on this promotion pathway. This would look really good for you.
This is like the clear ask that I need from you. Or if they’re really passionate about it, actually, we can partner on this. So that’s one.
So, the vision, getting key stakeholders involved and collaborative partners involved. And then the other thing is starting. Just start.
It is it might I mean, it might be perfect, but it might be messy at just accepting that and saying like and being transparent. So going back to the example with my summer immersion, the first to the first cohort, cohort, which was two medical students who ended up doing very well. They ended up matching into among their top choice programs for emergency medicine, which was our goal.
They I just said, hey, this is the pilot year. You all are actually we’re partners in this. Right.
So, everything that goes well, tell me and we’re going to maximize it for next year. Everything that needs to be better. Tell me, you know, here’s my phone number.
If it’s like urgent, text me, call me. But if not, we had weekly sessions where we reflected what went well during the week. What can we fix for the upcoming week?
What can’t be fixed? But we’re going to make a note of it for next year. And then just doing that every year, saying like, hey, we did this one year.
This is the way that we improved it. Feedback, feedback, feedback and being open and not taking it personally, because sometimes it can be hard, right? Because it’s like, oh, this is my baby.
You know, I really wanted it to be great. I really wanted it to be amazing. But saying like, OK, we’re going to work on it and get it to the point where it’s excellent.
And now with the summer immersion, we were able to present it at core and people from other institutions. They’re asking for like the curriculum of the summer immersion and we’re looking to collaborate on it. And so, I think just not being afraid to start and not being afraid to go through the discomfort of development.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. What is the summer immersion project? Tell us a little more about that.
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Oh, absolutely. So, this is an experiential program for first year medical students to expose them to emergency medicine and to expose them to social emergency medicine. I think, you know, from for emergency medicine on the TV, you see, you know, the high acuity, you know, procedures you see, you know, drama.
And there is some of that. But a lot of times it’s a lot of social pathology and social needs that our patients have. And so, I want students to really see that, too.
And it’s equally important and equally as impactful. And so that is the goal. And so, the students, they have shadow shifts.
We call them immersion shifts where they can meet patients, they can be exposed to pathology early. We have weekly sessions where they meet with mentors and they meet with program leaders who talk about their path. They go out into the community and work with different service opportunities.
And then we’ve also partnered with like Medfly, and they’ve gotten to participate in their educational day. It’s been pretty cool. We’ve gotten a lot of positive feedback.
The students really love it. And, you know, we expanded to three from two. So, we’re looking to see more opportunities for expansion just because it’s such a great experience.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. Yeah. I love, you know, in emergency medicine, when you think about traumas and, you know, significant injuries that come in when you’re treating them, you’re having an impact on their life in a very large way.
And then when you think about the social determinants of health and the challenges and barriers that patients face and taking that step to actually address those issues and care about those issues rather than say, hey, that’s someone else’s problem. I’m just here to fix your cold.
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Exactly.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
But by actually, you know, focusing in on the things that matter, you are impacting their life in a very big way, just in a different way. But, you know, and so I, you know, having that inspiration and then acting on it to design a curriculum around it. Hats off to you.
That is just really fantastic. Now, as you’re building a new curriculum like this, as we think about promotion and, you know, we have to be able to show that we’re having impact, that we are, you know, making a difference in terms of student education. How do you, you know, sort of bake in evaluation and scholarship right from the beginning of creating a new program?
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Yeah, I think so. A few ways. And actually, now I’m working with one of our research directors in the department to produce actual scholarship.
I think a few ways. One, thinking about your outcomes, like what do you want the outcome to be? And so, for us, I think a huge outcome, which may not be as feasible, like I wanted sort of the students to want to come in and ultimately want to enter emergency medicine and really want to lean in to social medicine and optimizing the lives of patients with their interactions.
You know, that’s so almost, it’s lofty and not that measurable. So small, right? Did they like this experience?
Did they get a lot out of this experience? And I think not surveying them at the end, weekly surveys as well and keeping those surveys. So that’s one.
And then two, I think just looking at once you have that information, looking at other ways to disseminate it. So, like, should you do podcasts while you’re with your students? Like, should everyone have a podcast project?
We’ve not been able to do that yet, but that is like one of the goals that we want to incorporate. Should the students have research mentors where they can get an abstract out of the summer? That is also a goal that we want to do that we haven’t achieved yet.
But I think, you know, looking at opportunities for that. But I think also just like looking at small, measurable things that you can report are important.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I’ll put a plug in for another resource from FAME, and that is the Curriculum Design Program that Dan McFarlane puts on. And I actually went through that a few years ago, and it is incredibly helpful, you know, just from thinking about what is your idea?
Who is your audience? How are you going to present it? How do you develop, you know, learning objectives that are practical and, you know, doable for sure.
Smart goals, you know, I learned so much in that class. And I would, you know, highly anyone who wants to start a program, that would be a great place to start. Just learning curriculum design.
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Absolutely. Absolutely.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Now, once you once you have a project, how then do you strategically let other people know, especially academically, as we think about, you know, impact and promotion, you know, presentations? You mentioned abstracts. How do you kind of get the word out there about what you’re doing and the impact that it’s having?
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Yeah, I think, well, two ways. I think formally looking at conferences, and it might say, oh, I just have this little thing, but it’s not a little thing, right? Like, if you’re making an impact, people should know.
And a lot of people have these questions, right? It’s a great idea. And so, people want to know how to do it.
So not being afraid to submit for a conference, writing up your outcomes and submitting it to a journal, talking about it in a podcast. So, I think those are formal paths. Informally, I think leaning on your network, you know, from training, if you are doing something within your field, talking to your colleagues like, hey, I have this program that I’m starting.
Are any of you involved in med ed? Can you let your students know? If you are connected, of course, we’re connected with OSU Medical School.
And so going to the medical school and saying, hey, I have this program, please follow that Ms. Luntz. If you know any students, hey, I have this program, please put this in your group chat. And just, you know, not being shy about doing all of that, just because any little connection works.
And, you know, I think probably the most effective way for me has been the group chat for informal dissemination. But the formal pathways are important, too.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. I, you know, I find that medical professionals tend to be humble, especially when you think about a lot of the challenges that your patients and families endure that you think, gosh, if I was in their shoes, that would be so tough. Like there’s this humbling effect, I think, of medical training.
And that actually does us a little bit of a disservice when we have to toot our own horn. Like we’re not comfortable saying, hey, look what I’m doing. But it is an important thing.
And by, you know, letting others know what you’re doing, you’re also inspiring them to do something great. And so, there are lots of reasons to, as I say, toot your own horn. I think it’s an important thing, but it is difficult for sure.
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
It is. And I think also taking, for me, it is difficult because I always think, oh, you know, what I’m doing is just whatever. But I think looking at it through the angle of collaboration or even like needing support advice, you know, it’s easier to say like, hey, I have this thing.
Do you have any students? You know, we were looking for people rather than like, oh, this is my thing. It’s all that.
I mean, I mean, both angles are useful and, you know, valuable.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. Yeah. So, what is, what is next for Jennah Morgan?
You know, where do you go from here? You have lots, lots of, lots of things on your plate. How do you move forward and figure out like what you’re going to do next?
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Yeah, I think right now I am trying to like, I’m really looking for sustainability. So, you know, my family is Caribbean and they have a saying like, your eyes are bigger than your belly. Like, you know, like when you’re getting food at the table, you pile up your plate, and you really can’t eat all of that food.
And I think that sort of, that explains me in life. Like I love things. And so, I’ll just pile up.
And so not to say I want to take anything away, but I want to make sure that I’m able to really give everything its due and flesh it out. So that is sort of where I am now. Just because, you know, I’m also a mom and, you know, also a wife.
And so, I have all of these roles, and I really want to make sure everyone’s getting their due. And so just what’s next for me, it’s really like leaning into what it means to be a program director. Like, what do I love about it?
What, who is Jennah, the program director going to be in five years? I’m really fleshing that out and looking at what that looks like practically. And, you know, who is Jennah, the mom, who is Jennah, the wife, who is Jennah, the daughter, the friend, the sister, you know, all of these roles I have in my life and just looking at practical ways to live those fully.
[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, absolutely. So, so very important and insightful. Well, this, this has been a fantastic conversation, and we really appreciate you sharing with us.
We’re going to have a link to the Center for Faculty Advancement, Mentoring and Engagement at the Ohio State University College of Medicine in the show notes. So, if folks head over to famecast.org and just look for this particular episode and you will find the show notes there and we’ll have that link so you can find the fame folks because there are so many opportunities. You know, we mentioned FLY, we’ve mentioned ATLAS, the Curriculum Design Program, just so many opportunities for early career folks.
So please do check that out and take advantage of the many opportunities and resources that are available here at Ohio State. So once again, Dr. Jennah Morgan, Program Director of the Emergency Medicine Internal Medicine Combined Residency Program and Assistant Professor of Emergency Medicine and Internal Medicine at the Ohio State University College of Medicine. Thank you so much for stopping by and chatting with us today.
[Dr Jennah Morgan]
Thank you so much for having me. This has been such a wonderful opportunity and thank you for doing this. I feel like a lot of people can get a lot from this experience.
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[Dr Mike Patrick]
We are back with just enough time to say thanks once again to all of you for taking time out of your day and making FAMEcast a part of it. We really do appreciate your support. Also, thanks again to our guest this week, Dr. Jennah Morgan, Program Director of the Emergency Medicine Internal Medicine Combined Residency Program and an Assistant Professor of Emergency Medicine and Internal Medicine at Ohio State. Don’t forget, you can find FAMEcast wherever podcasts are found. There may be an easier way for you to subscribe and listen. We’re in the Apple podcast app, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Audible, and most other podcast apps for iOS and Android.
Our landing site is Famecast.org. You’ll find our entire archive of past programs there, along with show notes for each of the episodes, our terms of use agreement, and that handy contact page if you would like to suggest a future topic for the program. Reviews are also helpful wherever you get your podcasts.
We always appreciate when you share your thoughts about the show. And then don’t forget about our additional faculty development resources that I mentioned at the beginning of the program. Again, head over to Famecast.org, click on the Resources tab up there at the top of the page. You’ll find links to Advancing Your Clinical Teaching and Faculty Development for Medical Educators. Those are both sets of learning modules aimed at medical educators developed by faculty development experts at Ohio State. And the modules can be taken separately or as a full series.
Group and institutional pricing is available for both sets of modules. Some of them are free for Ohio State faculty. Just contact Fame at osumc.edu for details. And again, you can find more information on those and links to the modules by clicking the Resources tab at Famecast.org. Thanks again for stopping by. And until next time, this is Dr. Mike saying stay focused, stay balanced, and keep reaching for the stars. So long, everybody.
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