Show Notes

Description

Dr David Kasick visits the FAMEcast Studio as we break down the promotion and tenure process at The Ohio State University College of Medicine. Advancing in academic medicine is not just about checking boxes; it’s about demonstrating excellence in teaching, scholarly activity, and service. Tune in to learn more!

Topic

The Promotion and Tenure Process
The Ohio State University College of Medicine

Guest

Dr David Kasick
Professor of Clinical Psychiatry
The Ohio State University College of Medicine

Links

Center for Faculty Advancement, Mentoring, and Engagement
Promotion and Tenure at OSUCOM
Expectations & Requirements for Promotion at OSUCOM
Promotion Review Process at OSUCOM
Appointment, Promotion, and Tenure Toolbox at OSUCOM
Office of Academic Affairs: Appointments, Reappointments, Promotion and Tenure
Preparing for Promotion: Intentional Planning – FAMEcast 004

Episode Transcript

[Dr Mike Patrick]
This episode of FAMEcast is brought to you by the Center for Faculty Advancement, Mentoring, and Engagement at The Ohio State University College of Medicine.

Hello, everyone, and welcome once again to FAMEcast. We are a faculty development podcast from The Ohio State University College of Medicine.

This is Dr. Mike. It’s episode five, and we are calling this one Preparing for Promotion, the P&T Process. I want to welcome all of you to the program.

So today we are continuing our series on Preparing for Promotion. And you’ll recall that our series began in episode four of FAMEcast as we considered intentional planning for promotion. In this episode, we’re going to dive into the actual promotion and tenure process at Ohio State.

And in our next episode, we’re going to explore tips for writing your narratives. So, look for that one soon. Advancing in academic medicine is not just about checking boxes.

It’s also about demonstrating excellence in teaching, scholarly activity, and service. That’s what’s important. And the path to promotion can sometimes feel overwhelming with multiple steps, required documentation, key deadlines to navigate.

And that’s why we’re going to break the process down in today’s episode. We’re going to walk through each stage of the promotion and tenure process from deciding when to apply and preparing your dossier to obtaining external evaluations and navigating departmental, college, and university reviews. We’ll also discuss common challenges, best practices, and strategies to set yourself up for success.

So, whether you’re just starting to think about promotion or actively preparing your dossier, this episode is going to be packed with practical advice to guide you through the journey. In our usual FAMEcast fashion, we have a terrific guest joining us this week. It’s Dr. David Kasick. He is a professor of clinical psychiatry at The Ohio State University College of Medicine. We will get to him momentarily, but first I want to remind you the information presented in FAMEcast is for general educational purposes only. Your use of this audio program is subject to the FAMEcast Terms of Use Agreement, which you can find at famecast.org.

So, let’s take a quick break. We’ll get Dr. David Kasick settled into the studio, and then we will be back to talk about the promotion and tenure process at The Ohio State University College of Medicine. It’s coming up right after this.

Dr. David Kasick is a clinical psychiatrist at The Ohio State University Wexner Medical Center, professor of psychiatry at The Ohio State University College of Medicine, and vice chair of faculty affairs for the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Health at Ohio State. He has a passion for helping his colleagues navigate the promotion and tenure process. That is what he’s here to talk about today, the PNT process at Ohio State, which is the second episode in our three-part series, Preparing for Promotion.

The first episode in our series was on intentional planning for promotion. That was FAMEcast episode four, and we’ll wrap up our series soon with an installment on tips for writing your narratives. So be on the lookout for that one coming soon.

Before we dive into today’s topic, let’s offer a warm FAMEcast welcome to our guest, Dr. David Kasick. Thank you so much for stopping by today.

[Dr David Kasick]
Thanks, Dr. Mike. It’s great to be here in the studio with you.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, we are really glad that you’re able to join us. Let’s just start off with how exactly does a faculty member determine if they’re ready to start this process of promotion?

[Dr David Kasick]
There are a few things, Mike, that really probably are taking place over a couple of years before the ultimate decision to kick off the process. I think one opportunity is to work in the annual review sessions with either your chair or the leader that’s performing the review to begin a dialogue about this and start to plan a timeline for when the faculty member is approaching the fulfilling the criteria that the department has for the promotion. Every department has slightly different requirements.

And so, I think the earlier that the faculty member is able to become familiar with the department’s appointments, promotion, and tenure document, the better and start to think about where are the areas in their work or in their CV that maybe need some additional items or some additional work to get to that point where they’re ready. I think another huge opportunity is just with mentors. It could be in a formal mentoring pair.

It could be with informal or peer mentors just to begin to talk about what it was like for them, how they knew it was time, and some of the different signals they got that maybe it was time to start having that conversation. I think the other thing is sometimes faculty also just think about the amount of time that it takes. It does take quite an amount of time over months usually to begin to really assemble the dossier.

So, there are some faculty that know a particular cycle, or a particular year is a good fit. Other times they know because of either work or other personal commitments that maybe deferring a cycle is just going to align better with the time it’s going to take to get the process rolling.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
We talked in our last episode that the time to start thinking about this is actually soon after you come on board, not like even a year before you’re ready for promotion. And as you had mentioned, it’s really important to have your department’s handbook or guide to promotion. Print out the PDF or have it saved and keep checkmarks of the things that you’re doing.

In our intentional planning episode, we talked a lot about that and also the role of our division chief or department chair in helping us determine when we’re ready to do that. Of course, annual reviews are a great opportunity to do it. So again, more on the planning part of it in our last episode.

Let’s jump right into the process now. What are the first steps? How do you begin during a particular cycle going down that road of promotion?

[Dr David Kasick]
Some departments have a formal pre-review process. Others, it’s less formal and it really is about getting familiar with the core dossier itself, the document and the things that you’ll need to complete as you work towards the deadlines that your department may have. Another first step really is setting up meetings with mentors.

I think if your department does not have a series of pre-review documents or deadlines, starting to look at the calendar, figuring out who your mentorship team might be, and beginning to put some dates and some self-deadlines would probably be the very first step. There is a lot that the college also offers to help break down this fairly large process into a series of manageable tasks. And I think some of the workshops that are offered around the different elements of the core dossier, writing some of the narratives, I think that’ll give candidates a good sense of probably how much time it’s really going to take.

Another thing that can be really helpful is if your department keeps sample dossiers from faculty who have been promoted that volunteered or were willing to share that final product. And so, I think one of the key demystification steps then is really sort of thinking about where you’re going and what that looks like and then breaking it down into smaller pieces. Sometimes even just scheduling 30 minutes a day or a few times a week is a great start as you begin to kind of get into the details and maybe realizing at that point, especially early, that you may need to gather still some additional information or if there was a step in the preparation process like getting peer review of teaching evaluations that you may need to go back and fill one or two of those in.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, and that core dossier is really going to be time-consuming in terms of putting that together because you’re really making a case for your promotion and highlighting all the things that you’ve done. And as we mentioned in our planning episode, it’s helpful to keep track of everything that you’re doing as you do it because if you get to the point where you’re preparing the dossier, it’s a little hard to think back and remember everything. And you certainly want to get credit for all the things that we do.

So, what then are the key components of a strong promotion dossier? What can we do to strengthen it and increase the likelihood of a success?

[Dr David Kasick]
I think one of the things, Mike, with that and really with kicking off the process formally, is going to meet with either the vice chair of academic or faculty affairs in your department or the P&T chair or the group of faculty in your department that manage this process and work with faculty. And I think in our department, for example, that meeting really helps to formalize readiness or through reviewing a faculty member’s CV together, going through and looking at where are the areas that are strongest and maybe where are there some areas where, for example, a faculty member has done work but does not have that reflected well on the CV, maybe going through the department requirements together and holding the CV up against the department requirements.

And if it’s not clearly articulated in some of the work the faculty member’s done, it could be a matter of addressing this more specifically in the narratives so that it’s really clear to the reader what the faculty member has accomplished and what their impact has been. So not just relying on maybe lines and accomplishments in the CV or metrics, but really what was the impact of that work on the research community, on understanding something novel or new in the field, on furthering clinical excellence or building a new clinical program or reaching a population of patients that didn’t have a care option before. So, I think one of the biggest shifts early for that faculty member is really understanding not just the content of the dossier and what goes into the process, but sort of the mindset and the way of talking about your work that for many of us is not comfortable.

It goes against maybe sort of the humility or just the familiarity of our day-to-day work and learning to talk and pitch what you do to an audience that really may not understand your field. As the dossier moves along, which we’ll talk about in a few minutes, the audience will become less and less familiar with what you do because they’re not necessarily members of your specialty and they’re not from within your department.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
There’s a lot of challenges that faculty face as they’re preparing their dossier. We’ve talked about some of those. Having kept updated reports of what we’re doing as we go along so that we can transfer things into the dossier is certainly going to be a challenge.

Writing the narratives is a challenge and we’re going to cover that in our next episode. But as we’re creating it, what sort of review and feedback are we looking for to make sure before we submit it that it’s as strong as it can possibly be? I mean, certainly meeting with our mentors and with our division chief and perhaps our department chair is important as we get started.

But once we have it done and we think it’s done, should we have that reviewed and get some feedback on it?

[Dr David Kasick]
Absolutely, Mike. I think looking at this as an iterative process and allowing enough time to have multiple drafts go back and forth between the candidate and the mentor or sometimes the candidate and the oversight designees or members of the P&T committee. I think this is really where the feedback around areas that could be improved or thinking strategically about how to construct the narratives or even thinking as a group about who might write the external letters of evaluation.

These are all the things that would go into making a strong dossier. And as you’re going back and forth and refining and clarifying, it’s actually a great chance also for the candidate to get feedback about their work that they may not be getting in general or even for just others in their department to learn more about what they do. I think part of the opportunity here with the promotion process is really the chance to step back and get more perspective and develop goals.

One of the things that might happen then is thinking about after that promotion, you know, I’m getting ideas and feedback from my colleagues that might help me chart the rest of the course of my career. So, there’s ideally time for this type of reflection and dialogue. And also, it’s easy just to sometimes forget things that you’ve accomplished or things that you’ve done.

In episode four, Dr. Oberyszyn talked a lot about being organized and making sure that you update your CV. But sometimes things slip through the cracks and there’s a lot of sort of jogging of the memory or a chance to go back and just think about presenting some of what you’ve accomplished in different ways that all go into making a strong dossier.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned the external reviews, and that’s something that we have not talked about yet in this series. What is the external review?

Why is it important? And how do you get started incorporating it into your dossier?

[Dr David Kasick]
So, as the final draft of the core dossier is put together by the candidate and their mentorship team, it is then sent out by the department to faculty members of usually the same or higher rank. And again, you have to look at your department’s rules, but often this is at institutions outside of Ohio State. And they are doing an independent review and validation of the dossier and giving basically an opinion about whether it is consistent with the department’s promotion criteria.

So, this is intended to be an unbiased assessment. It is a group of reviewers that is selected usually by a combination of the candidate, the department chair, and the P&T committee. It’s intended also to be an arm’s length refereeing of a process.

And so, the candidate does not reach out and ask the evaluator or the letter writer themselves. It’s done by the P&T committee on behalf of the department. And one of the goals is to have this be impartial.

There could be conflicts of interest that would exclude somebody from being an external reviewer, for example, a personal friend or somebody who had served as a direct mentor or a very close collaborator. We’re really looking for people that can give as objective of an assessment as possible about whether the candidate meets the criteria. So those letters are written.

Usually, it takes place in the summertime before the fall where the voting and the dossier continues to move forward. And it’s also really a great opportunity for others around the country, potentially, or even the world to learn more about your work. So as much as you are building the case that you would meet the criteria for promotion, you’re also getting a chance to tell your story and share your work and what you are most passionate about with the broader academic community.

It’s also a chance to learn about the process in case you are also asked to serve in this role for another person at another institution. So there probably is an opportunity to pay it forward down the road.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, absolutely. I experienced that myself when I was promoted from assistant to associate professor, and then suddenly you’re getting asked to look over dossiers from other institutions. And it’s always interesting to see how other universities’ process maybe differs from our own here at Ohio State because it can differ from one university to another.

But the general principles are the same, and it’s kind of fun, actually, I think, to help your colleagues around the country as you’re picking external reviewers or suggesting them to your department. So, you want someone who maybe is knowledgeable in your field and maybe even your work, but not someone that you’ve collaborated with really closely, correct? That’s exactly right.

[Dr David Kasick]
And sometimes that’s a little challenging, especially if you work in a very specific area or in a relatively small community. The writers have an opportunity in the letter to maybe address that or talk about that, but that’s really what the committee is looking for is people that don’t have an immediate conflict or an immediate close working relationship with the candidate just to maintain fairness and make sure that we’re getting an unbiased assessment.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
So, once we have our dossier done and we’ve had folks review it, we’ve made edits, we’ve sent it out and had external reviewers look at it, the next step is really the department review. So, we’re going now outside of our division, if there are divisions within your department. What happens then during the departmental review phase?

[Dr David Kasick]
So, the materials all come back into the department, the core dossier, the external letters of evaluation. There are also some other materials that go into the entire dossier. For example, the peer review of teaching evaluations, student and learner evaluations of the candidates teaching.

So, all of this comes back in and is assembled into a packet that is then given to the members of the committee of eligible faculty in the department. So, every department has a P&T committee, and then they have a committee of eligible faculty, and that is comprised based on rank and track. And the group that would vote on a faculty member’s dossier needs to align then with the track or the promotion that the faculty member is seeking.

So, for example, if you’re in a department with tenured faculty, they may vote on candidates going up for promotion on the tenure track, but also the clinical or research tracks, whereas clinical track faculty are not voting on the tenure track. So, these procedures are described in your department’s AP&T document, and it may be helpful to review that, but essentially the materials are distributed, reviewed, and then there is a meeting the committee will convene to vote. And so, there is a review of each candidate.

There is a discussion about their dossier and how it fits the department criteria. The other idea is that this is meant to be a confidential vote and an anonymous vote or confidential dialogue. A letter is then written by the P&T chair about this meeting and review and vote and then forwarded to the department chair, who will then also write a recommendation about promotion.

So, committee review, two letters, and then all of this is bundled together. The candidate can actually review this one last time before the dossier moves from the department to the college. And that’s an opportunity then where you can read the letters of external evaluation.

You can read the internal letters. And I think, like you mentioned, it’s sort of one of those unexpected and, at least for me, kind of amazing moments that you really don’t know who these reviewers or letter writers will be, but a chance to get some validation or affirmation of your work. And I think of a meaningful milestone in an academic career to step back and just appraise what you’ve accomplished.

If you feel there were any mistakes or errors, or sometimes there’s maybe one or two more papers that were published in that time where the dossiers were out for evaluation, you can add that into one of the forms in the dossier. And at that point, it goes from the department to the college.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Now, what happens if at the department level, you know, you’re told you’re not quite ready, or the committee says it’s okay, but maybe your chair thinks that you’re not quite ready yet? How does an individual faculty member handle those situations?

[Dr David Kasick]
The faculty member would have a chance to respond in the comments process phase of the review. Sometimes very early on, there are recommendations against going for promotion, but there are also university faculty rules around how to approach this or resolve it. If the faculty member does move forward for promotion, if they, for example, received a negative vote or a negative evaluation, these are things that would be reviewed also at the college level.

And so, there’s a chance to respond, but the dossier can move forward. I think this is part of the idea of having a multi-layered process, so that we’re also trying to give people as fair of an evaluation as possible.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. And I think that that department committee really is your friend, because at the end of the day, they want to see their faculty promoted. But they also have been around the block a time or two and kind of understand what the college committee is going to be looking for.

And so as disappointing as it might be, you really do want to run with their recommendations in terms of, oh, maybe you need one more peer-reviewed publication, or maybe try to write a book chapter, give another national presentation or, you know, just to do the things to increase your national reputation and that sort of thing. And that can just be so helpful. But I do understand that when you first hear that news, it may be disappointing, but it is a chance to improve and grow.

[Dr David Kasick]
I think thinking about this, Mike, as a growth process throughout or as a mentorship, ideally a mentorship-infused process throughout, and sometimes getting feedback, even if it’s critical feedback, it’s all a chance to continue to grow and improve and in the long run, you know, keep moving forward and keep setting goals. I think you’re right about the leveraging the experience of the committee and of your mentors, that the departments really want people to be successful or have as great of a chance of being promoted as possible. But if it does involve a setback, I want to encourage people to keep going and to not give up and to make the best use of that feedback they can keep revising and elevating their dossier.

Sometimes they’re just not that far off, and it really does sometimes come down to how committees are interpreting the criteria of the department or interpreting maybe a gap in a dossier against the criteria. Many of the departments do have language in their documents about evaluating the totality of the dossier and recognize that some faculty, while there are requirements in areas, you know, in the teaching, scholarship, and service areas, that some faculty, based on the nature of what they do, are going to be exceptionally qualified in some areas and others may not have as many things, but there still needs to be a minimum threshold of excellence in each of those areas, and so relying on the feedback, I think, is critical.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Now, once we have passed the department review and our chairman of our department has signed off and written their letter, now our dossier goes to the college promotion and tenure committee. What does that look like? What does that process consist of?

[Dr David Kasick]
So, at that point, your dossier is being reviewed by college committees and not members of your department, so the structure is such that as a college committee member, these are faculty who are appointed, they are typically full professors, and they are not at that point reviewing or voting on the dossiers of people in their department. So again, the goal is to try to ensure consistency and fairness. They’re reviewing the department’s input and the results of the vote and the letter, but they’re also making their own independent assessment of the candidate’s dossier against that department’s criteria.

So, they do have to also watch to see if there’s variability across some of the different departments and their thresholds for promotion, although by and large, it’s much more similar than different, and a chance also to have a more impartial review of those external letters, all of the different elements of the full dossier, the peer review of teaching. So, to the extent that the department, again, is being as fair and as impartial as possible, there’s another independent group taking a look at this.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I wonder if maybe once you get to the college level, it’s a little easier, meaning from the department level, they’re going to be, I think, the most critical because as a group, they want their faculty to be promoted, and so they want to offer up the best candidates who are really ready. And so, I’m thinking at the college level, maybe you’re going to get the more qualified candidates to begin with.

Do you find that to be true? I would say that is generally the case.

[Dr David Kasick]
And to the extent there is any sort of variability across departments or that there is a sort of a hawk or dove phenomenon in the level of scrutiny, that college committee is a chance to try to have as much transparency and sort of a level playing field in each case. And I think, again, to the extent that there may have been some negative votes or any sort of negative assessment at the department level, a chance for that faculty member to have another or a different audience that is not involved in the department review their dossier. Yeah.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
And I could see, you know, you may have departments are different sizes. There’s going to be, you know, more candidates. And then that would mean also more competition where someone, if they had been in a different department with their same qualifications, might have gotten through.

So, I think at the college level, you kind of even, as you said, even that playing field basically between the differences between departments. Is there a quota at all? Like, is there a, you know, a set number of people that you can promote or is it completely based on merit, and you could promote everyone if everyone is deserving?

It’s a great question.

[Dr David Kasick]
To my knowledge, everybody who is deserving and everybody who meets the criteria could be promoted. I think we have seen in our department, certainly an increase in the number of people seeking promotion in the last couple of years. We have been growing as a department.

I think there’s been some conversation about the impact of the pandemic on the timelines for faculty. And also, it was for many people, a period of generativity. So, the college has also done quite a bit to support a culture of advancement and promotion through the FAME program and FAME resources.

So, I think the knowledge of how to do this, or maybe even the tradition of doing this, I hope is growing and it’s as inaccessible of a process as it’s ever been. So, the other thing I think to point out is that Ohio State does not have any time and rank criteria, whereas some institutions might. So, if a person meets the criteria, they can be promoted.

If our faculty are, as a group, successful, generative, making accomplishments, and if our mentorship structures are also encouraging that to trickle down to the junior faculty, in other words, if success leads to more success, I think we could continue to see this cycle continuing. So, if a person meets the criteria to go from assistant to associate professor in three years or in four years, there’s not a requirement that they be in the assistant rank for seven years or eight years like there might be at other institutions.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, that is good to know. Now, finally, after you get through the college review, if you pass that, next is the university-level review, and I would think that those are even, those are the strongest of candidates. So hopefully you will have success at the university level if you’ve passed both the department and the college level.

What does the university review look like?

[Dr David Kasick]
So, I think that is it, Mike, that most people feel that when you pass the college-level hurdle that then your chances of success are strong, and at the university level, they’re ensuring compliance with the university-wide promotion standards, a final committee to sort of ensure that all the colleges are adhering to the university-wide process. Just as at the college level, the dean is making the final sort of decision or review and letter, at the university level, it’s the provost who is making the final decision. I should also mention that just like the candidate could provide input and fill out a comments process response form after the department review, they could do that after the college review.

So, once the dossier leaves sort of the candidate’s hands, you know, typically in the springtime when the dossier goes out for external evaluation and comes back to college, they can see it once more after the department review, and they can see it once more after the college review. This is typically in the winter, maybe around the end of January, early February. So, from there, once it gets to the university, the provost is making the final review, and then it would go to the board of trustees for voting.

And then from there, the promotion would become official after the board of trustee vote. And the faculty member is actually notified by the provost’s office that the promotion was approved.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
And I would think the board of trustees is pretty much a rubber stamp. I mean, since, you know, folks who are involved in education have passed it along, you know, from department to college to university, I would think that there would have to be more of a political issue or something in order not to pass the board of trustees.

[Dr David Kasick]
It’s not something I’ve encountered, Mike, but I would agree that once it passes, I think really once it passes the college level and certainly the university office of academic affairs and provost office, I think your chances of success are very high.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Now, I think it’s important to understand just how long this process is. So, we started off with, you know, the intentional planning and deciding that we’re going to pursue promotion. And that was all in like the early winter.

So, you know, like December, January kind of time. And then you’re using the spring to get your dossier together. The summer, the department’s looking at it, the fall and into the early winter, the college is looking at it.

And then now we’re into the next winter. And, you know, this is then when, you know, the university and into the spring, the provost, and then the board of trustees meets, I think in June or something. And so, it’s like a year and a half process.

[Dr David Kasick]
That’s exactly it, Mike. It really is quite a long process. And for the departments that may have even more pre-review steps, there might be some activity happening even in that summer or fall before kind of the kickoff of the process, you know, at the change of the calendar year.

So, for those also who are using annual reviews and mentorship, I mean, it can be a that really goes on 18, 24 months or more. But as I mentioned, the last time the candidate really touches or does much with the dossier is really late spring of the year they’re starting the cycle officially. And then there’s outside of those two moments where they get to review the dossier and offer comments after the department and college reviews, there’s really nothing else for the faculty to do.

I think to quote the song, the waiting is the hardest part.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah, yes, absolutely. And the reasons to do this, and I remember when I, you know, when I was going up for promotion and I met with the folks in our department who kind of oversees the committee that’s evaluating candidates, it was told to me like, you know, this is not something you have to do. You know, it’s certainly encouraged, but why would we want to go through all of this work and, you know, wait for so long and put so much effort into it?

Is it just so that we can say, hey, we’re an associate professor, now we’re a full professor, or are there more benefits to going through this process?

[Dr David Kasick]
Definitely. I think, you know, while faculty serve the mission of the department or the college in all different ways, and I think, as you mentioned, you know, I see in many department criteria that promotion is not required. I think it’s encouraged because it is the way that we move our academic communities forward.

It’s the way that we can demonstrate personal and professional growth. It’s a way that helps open doors to faculty members as they grow and develop their careers, not just to demonstrate the excellence and the accomplishments that they’ve made, but also to advance in the local and national leadership structures through, you know, rank promotion. And sometimes those titles do open doors to leadership roles.

It also is something that helps us to continue the mentorship cycle that sort of formally demonstrates that we ideally, you know, not just succeeded, but mastered in those steps of advancing a career. And, you know, whether you’re applying for a grant or a leadership position or a committee opportunity, and again, whether that’s local or at the national level, sometimes those titles are very quick ways of demonstrating excellence and accomplishment. So, I think just as, you know, sometimes faculty feel a little bit stuck or maybe a little bit flat-footed in their careers or they go through periods of time where they may experience a little bit of burnout, I think the process also is about setting goals and about continuing growth and can be a real motivator for both trying to move things forward.

It can also be a helpful way of trying to grow in a focused or in a specific way. There are lots of opportunities that come along for academic faculty, and sometimes it’s important to also say no. And if you are charting a promotion course on a specific clinical pathway, for example, it may make sense to say yes to certain opportunities and to pass on other opportunities.

But again, to think about your colleagues who are, maybe if you’re somebody at full professor or associate professor, could this be an opportunity that would be a great thing for one of our assistant professors? Is there a faculty mentee or somebody I can sponsor? And, you know, the idea of saying yes to something because it will also help them eventually get to one of these milestones, I think, is a little bit of added incentive.

The other short answer, Mike, is that you do get a raise potentially with academic promotion, but I think ultimately a sense of accomplishment, a sense of meaning around one’s career. And as, you know, we advance, I think sometimes we look back, what did our career really mean? What was it about?

What did we accomplish? And this is a thing I think that I underestimated, just the, you know, the sense of accomplishing these goals and all the good things that came from them and even the chance then to work on helping other faculty. Those have all been very meaningful things that I definitely underestimated or just knew nothing about when I started out.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. You also get better football seats. As you get promoted, you get more seniority points, and then when you select, you can get better seats.

There it is. That’s important to some people and not important at all to others. So finally, what set of advice would you give to faculty who may be just starting on their promotion journey?

So, based on everything that we’ve talked about, if you could just break down, what are the key points that everybody really does need to know?

[Dr David Kasick]
I think it’s a great opportunity if your mentorship network or mentorship team is not already firm. It’s a great opportunity to firm that up or maybe add a few people into that group for yourself. I think starting early and staying organized is really key and probably doing this even informally in the years leading up to it.

Go to one fame session a year, go to your faculty development sessions in your department, talk to the people that have been through it and just sort of begin to gather ideas as you’re building your CV and building accomplishments. I think using it really as an opportunity to reflect and while it’s easy to get anxious and overwhelmed by some of the details of it, just know that the know-how is out there. The college has great resources.

Check out the APT toolbox on the College of Medicine fame website and just give yourself the time to go through those things and to think creatively and know that after the promotion happens, you’ll have more time in your career. This can be a process that really helps you step back, look at the big picture and pay things forward to your junior colleagues who are just getting started.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
We are going to have links to some of the things you mentioned in the show notes over at famecast.org. If you just look up episode 5, that’s this one, at famecast.org and we’ll have a link to the promotion and tenure documents at The Ohio State University College of Medicine, including that APT toolbox that you had mentioned. We’ll also have links to the Center for Faculty Advancement, Mentoring and Engagement, the Office of Academic Affairs, and then we’ll also have a link to our previous podcast on promotion, which was episode 4 on intentional planning.

And then everyone can look forward to episode 6, which we will talk about writing narratives. That one is coming up next. So once again, Dr. David Kasick, Professor of Clinical Psychiatry at The Ohio State University College of Medicine. Thank you so much for stopping by today.

[Dr David Kasick]
Thanks, Dr. Mike. It was great to be here.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
We are back with just enough time to say thanks once again to all of you for taking time out of your day and making FAMEcast a part of it. Really do appreciate that. Also, thank you to our guest this week, Dr. David Kasick, Professor of Clinical Psychiatry at The Ohio State University College of Medicine. Don’t forget, you can find FAMEcast wherever podcasts are found. We’re in the Apple Podcast app, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Audible, and most other podcast apps for iOS and Android. Our landing site is famecast.org.

You’ll find our entire archive of past programs there, along with show notes for each of the episodes, our terms of use agreement, and that contact page if you would like to suggest a future topic for the program. Reviews are also helpful wherever you get your podcasts. We always appreciate when you share your thoughts about the show.

Don’t forget, we do have additional resources that you can find on the website over at famecast.org. If you just click on the resources tab at the top of the page, we have two links to faculty development modules on something called Scarlet Canvas. If you are faculty at Ohio State, you probably know what that is.

If you are elsewhere around the country, though, it’s really a great resource. It’s open for everyone to take a look at, and we have modules on Advancing Your Clinical Teaching and also FD4ME, which is Faculty Development for Medical Educators, and those are both two different series of modules that can help you along your career journey. There are scores of learning modules on both of those locations at Scarlet Canvas, so be sure to follow those links to find lots more useful information specifically targeting academic medical faculty.

Another podcast that I host that you might be interested in if you are a pediatric provider, and that is PediaCast CME. That stands for Continuing Medical Education, as most of you know. It is a podcast for pediatric providers, and we do offer free Category 1 CME credit for those who listen.

And since Nationwide Children’s is accredited for Category 1 CME, we do offer the credit you need to fulfill your state’s continuing medical education requirements. Shows and details are available at the landing site for that program, which is pediacastcme.org. You can also listen wherever podcasts are found.

Simply search for PediaCast CME. Thanks again for stopping by, and until next time, this is Dr. Mike saying stay focused, stay balanced, and keep reaching for the stars. So long, everybody.